Idles good but dies when in gear...complete engine rebuild

[Florian]

Can I see / check the vacuum plate with the ignitor installed?

Here it is as of this afternoon:

[Dragon]

Yep the ignitor sits on it. If the ignitor wobbles then you will have a timing problem.

[Florian]

Hey Dragon!

Could it be that with the new ignition components the engine idles way too fast now? I turned the idle adjustment screw out again, about 3 to 4 turns and it still idles way too fast...

[Dragon]

Timing or throttle linkage binding can make it idle fast.

[Florian]

I had the fuel tank out and had to push the gas pedal quite often to get gas to the engine again after I reinstalled the tank...could this cause it to idle too fast?

Will check if the ignitor wobbles tomorrow.

[cdeal28078]

Too much initial timing will cause it to idle too fast sometimes also. Also if it is a 4 barrel carb like a Holley if the secondary set screw is in too far that will cause too high an idle
clint

[Dragon]

Though a holley secondary idle screw should never be messed with except by racers. That is the reason Holley put it out of sight.

Taking the tank out and pushing the gas pedal did nothing to the carb or got fuel there any faster. You just had to wait for the pump to fill the float bowl.

[Florian]

The ignitor doesn´t wobble significantely.

I drove quite a good amount of miles with the truck today. Weather was nice and warm. Had a problem once, after driving on the highway for maybe an hour with 60 miles I got off the highway, pushed the clutch in and rolled upwards the exit ramp as the engine dies all of a sudden. Couldn´t restart while still rolling in 2nd gear, so I stopped and tried but did not start again...needed a jump start because after several tries the battery was too weak to turn the starter. After some time and cooling down it fired up again. Coolant is full.

I think if I had shifted back into 2nd in this situation it wouldn´t have died, it did it like that the rest of the day and everything was alright.

What could cause this?

[Dragon]

Heat too high for the ignitor module or on my truck a filter on the inlet side of the Mr Gasket is clogged partially so the fuel cuts off at weird times and won't restart flowing without me getting under the truck and messing with it. p.S. Mr Gasket designed the pump to use an Autolite carb filter but the design is so poor that if I try and remove the filter it breaks the pump. I would suspect the ignitor module or the fuel flow. Flow flow is easy to check. Remove the air cleaner and hit the throttle with the engine dead and see if it squirts fuel. The module is not hard to test either pull the coil wire and crank the engine with the coil wire next to something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd24zV_SeHM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x8y5ytxmY4
And just for the fun of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4278SwtTuTE

[Florian]

Yeah but the odd thing is that this only happened after longer highway driving...I drove the same distance on normal roads yesterday, even had some traffic jams in the hot sun, and I think the engine got at least as hot there as after highway driving, but it did not die the whole time?

Another thing is that the engine needs very long to actually start. So the starter motor needs to turn very long to get the engine running. It starts the best when you hold the gas pedal floored and release it when the engine comes...like you would do with a flooded engine..

The idle speed is low again now, I adjusted the screw again and it idles almost a bit too slow, at the inspection yesterday it idled at 630rpm..

[Florian]

Hi!

Drove the bump without problems for the last couple of weeks.

When I started it up this morning there was a weird grumbling noise from the starter, but did start fine and ran good afterwards.

Then this evening, on the Autobahn at around 50mph the engine starts to stumble and doesn´t react anymore. I pressed the clutch and went out of the 3rd gear to get away from the Autobahn, but as I went out of gear the engine went out.

Could reach a good parking spot beside the road then but it didn´t fire up again. Also the noise from the starter is different than usually...it´s a loud whining noise now, definetely different than before.

We checked everything:

-spark is okay
-fuel is reaching the engine
-the engine turns over when you try to start but doesn´t fire up. Engine does not make a sound at all, not even a short stumble.
-did some starter spray directly into the carb - nothing
-some gas into the carb - nothing
-spark plugs were not wet, so it was not flooded
-choke is okay

I could imagine that there is a problem with either the camshaft or the camshaft or the cam shaft chain or something like this. Am I aiming at the right direction?

Will buy a compression tester and see what it comes up with. Is it right that in order to see if the camshaft turns, I just need remove the valvecovers and see if it is turning?


Towed it home then. Luckily I got away from the Autobahn and it was not far from my home.

Thanks,

Florian.

[cdeal28078]

I thought you had that thing fixed. Without reading all 4 pages again has the timing chain ever been replaced that you know of?
If there is spark, fuel, air and the RIGHT compression it should run. Obviously is doesn't.
You can one valve cover and turn the engine over to see if the valves move and check the cam but if the cam or timing chain is broken you should be able to tell by the way the engine sounds when turning over. It just won't sound right. If the timing chain skipped a tooth it will spit and sputter and back fire through the carb. or exhaust.
With what you say about gas and starter fluid down the carb with no help and still have fire I would have to think it is a timing problem. Easiest way to make sure the timing chain has not broken it to pull the distributor cap and have some body turn the engine over. If the rotor button turns the cam and timing chain are still together.
The cam could still be broken behind the gear the distributor turns off of though
Clint

[Dragon]

No fire like above with starting fluid is no spark at all in the cylinders. Ether will light in all but the coldest places on the earth. As Clint said pull cover and watch.

[Florian]

...has the timing chain ever been replaced that you know of?

I did change spark plugs, plug wires, distributor cap and I adjusted the idle speed screw. Timing chain hasn´t been changed, also don´t think that the PO ever changed it.

the RIGHT compression it should run.

What is the right compression for a 302cui smallblock?

You can one valve cover and turn the engine over to see if the valves move and check the cam but if the cam or timing chain is broken you should be able to tell by the way the engine sounds when turning over. It just won't sound right.

Yes the sound when turning the engine over is strange. Doesn´t sound as usual. Will pull the valve cover this afternoon.

If the timing chain skipped a tooth it will spit and sputter and back fire through the carb. or exhaust.

After we had filled some gas in the carb it spitted fuel back out, but not really backfired because it was unburnt fuel only. Maybe it was too much fuel we filled in?

Easiest way to make sure the timing chain has not broken it to pull the distributor cap and have some body turn the engine over. If the rotor button turns the cam and timing chain are still together.

When I checked yesterday, the rotor of the distributor turned. I also had spark on the plugs, tested different wires, tested the coil to distributor wire, seems fine.

After we filled in the fuel directly into the carb the spark plugs were wet with fuel. Before we filled the fuel in they were dry.


I need to go get a compression gauge and a new towing cable to tow it to the shop now..

Thanks for your help guys! Really appreciate it! Can´t thank you enough!

[Florian]

Update:

Won´t get the compressiongauge before tomorrow.

Pulled the valve covers. Gasket was toast. Quite oily and dirty in there. When you turn the engine over the valves move. I made some videos with the valve covers removed and turning over, they´re currently uploading to youtube, will post the links when they´re done.

Driver´s side:



Found this covered with dirt on the driver´s side:





Passenger side:




Will check spark tomorrow again after the battery is recharged. Will also measure compression then. Also I will pull the spark plugs and see if there is any hint to the problem.

When I turned the engine over, the carb spit fuel out on top. Distributor was not connected to the coil so there was no chance it could backfire, but it also did not spray fuel yesterday when it had spark. Too much fuel in the carb now? You can actually see it spitting out the fuel in the last of the 3 videos that I´m currently uploading.

Anyone any ideas with the new facts?


Florian