Superduty spring swap thread

[1971ford]

I know i'm not the only one that can't afford to spend the cash on skyjacker lift springs for $600... I was going to buy the skyjacker 2" spring kit, but I don't think I'll want to after i'm done with this.
I've been reading up on putting superduty springs in a highboy, and here's what i have found out.
1998-2004 superduty's have front springs that will almost bolt in to the front of a highboy. There are 2 thick leaves in a super duty pack. The lower leaf has a military wrap, in other words, the lower leaf wraps around the main leaf on the front. Stock highboy springs have 6 leafs (heavier duty highboys anyways, i believe there is also 5 pack highboy springs stock. The pack thickness of the stock springs are about twice as thick as the two leafs in the superduty pack, so new u-bolts arn't necessary (although not a bad idea to replace u-bolts).
The military wrap will not fit in a stock highboy hanger. Fix this by slicing the military wrap portion of the leaf off.

Front bushing sleeve diameter is larger in the superduty bushings than the highboy ones are, so the highboy spring hangers must be drilled out a little.

Center pin is not in the exact same spot as the stock springs, it's slightly off but isn't enough to cause issues.

Rear shackle can be extended a little, without any steering issues (extend the hanger too much and you'll throw caster off too much and it will cause slow/funny steering). I'll be extending mine to 6".
I will also be taking a leaf or two from the stock highboy pack and adding it to the super duty pack for a little more lift.
I should be sitting around 2-3" of lift, I will measure at the fender.

From what i have read, these springs ride great, and actually flex pretty dang well.
SPrings shouldn't be too hard to find, lots of people lifting their superduty's. I found a guy on craigslist with a set of springs for $100, an hour away. I offered $60, he accepted, then he happened to have to come to Sacramento so on the way back he stopped by my town and dropped them off, super nice guy!
Springs are sitting in the flatbed waiting to go on.

So, for $60, I have a 2-3" (guessing. Will know tomorrow!) lift, that should ride the same as skyjackers from what i've been reading, and should flex well.

Starting the swap tomorrow morning, should be done by noon, and i'll be putting the 35's on.

[1971ford]

yep, I couldn't find any used lift springs. I read from a guy that he put 4" superduty springs on his truck and got 5" lift, though. I think it depends on how sagged your highboy springs are. I believe mine are fairly sagged, as my highboy springs are almost flat while.

[CrypticRacer13]

[1971ford]

I thought it would take 3 hours... I started at noon and I still don't have one side down. It's not the working part that takes forever its the thinking, so once i have this side done the other side will be probably 30 minutes while this side is 5 hours.
Made new shackles that are a tad longer than original.... not long enough, need to re-do them. going to have to do those tomorrow at work.
Set the truck down on the springs, drivers side has superduty springs in (not done) and passenger still has highboy springs. Drivers side is sitting 2" higher than before, but the leaf is hitting the frame (shackle not long enough), so probably a little less than 2".. but then a longer shackle is going to give the 2" back. So it should be around 2" lift.
I pulled both leaf packs apart and added highboy leafs to the superduty leafs.
THe axle is pushed back a tad, you'd only notice if i told you or if you're really looking, but shouldn't bother me, it will give bigger tires more clearance on the front of the fender anyways. Driveshaft appears to have plenty slip left. for bump travel.
Shock now leans forward at the top, not worried about that, as I have plans for longer travel shocks, doing away with peg mounted shocks.

[1971ford]

I have tons of pictures, will post them later tonight. I'll be finished tomorrow if i have enough time between work #1 and work #2.

[CrypticRacer13]

What site are you reading all of the spring info from? Pirate?

[1971ford]

Superduty springs

Chopped military wraps. If you use a chop saw you need to move the leaf side to side so you cut through the leaf evenly and don't cut the main leaf

Superduty pack, and highboy pack. Both have the same free arch, superduty pack is just over an inch tall, and highboy pack is about 2.25" tall. Superduty main spring is a little longer. Superduty leafsl are thicker than the highboy leafs, but the supeduty bushings seem like a much improved design over the 40 year old bushings. Seems like they would flex much better (leaf can twist on the bushing easier).


Here's what I did. I took the two superduty springs, pulled the center pin, pulled the highboy pack apart, and took 3 leaf springs from the highboy pack and added them to the superduty pack. I ditched the two longer highboy springs i believe. I didn't want the new packs to be too stiff.

New center pins, grade 8 bolt and nut. clam leafs together with a c-clamp, slip bolt through, tighten nut, pretty easy. Top plate clears the nut perfectly.

Front spring hangers must be drilled out. I mic'd the bolt hole in the superduty spring and thought it was 3/4" but apparently it was just under. I bought $25 worth of grade 8 bolts, and had gotten 3/4" 5" long grade 8's for front hangers. They just barely wouldn't fit in the bushing, so i opened it up a tad using a bit on my air grinder deal, drilled out hangers to 3/4" and am good to go. Used 3/4" nylocs.
Ran into a snag here, though. The leaf was hitting something in the hanger, turned out to be the rivet inside the hanger, so i ground that down a little bit, then the leaf went right in.


Stock rear hanger will never work, even with the leaf against the frame you can't get the bolt in. This is because the main leaf of the superduty pack is slightly longer, pushing the shackle back, and the leaf wrap around the bushing is much bigger.
So I made some new shackles. The rear leaf spring bushing uses a 5/8" bolt, so when you make new shackles, drill the upper pivot hole the same as it was, then drill the lower to 5/8". I made my shackles 5 1/4" center to center and that was not enough. The leaf goes in but with all weight on the springs, they hit the frame.


Both sides are all done, except rear shackles. Just need to whip up new, longer shackles tomorrow and i'll be able to go test drive the truck tomorrow before work #2 hopefully. I'll try to find something to flex on, i'm curious how it will do. I heard these springs flex well, i did add 3 leafs though.
I think i am going to try 5.24" shackles center to center. I don't want to go too long and mess with caster too much. 5.25" will be longer than i'd like but I don't think i have much of a choice. we will see how it does...
I already have death wobble with this truck, haven't been able to figure it out. I am going to take it to an alignment shop, although now they will probably just tell me to fix the caster.

These pictures are with the drivers side leaf spring hitting the frame from too short of shackles, and with the passenger side leaf spring simple sitting on the frame with no shackle at all. The drivers side is sitting 2" higher than it was before, and the passenger side is sitting 1" higher (no shackle..). Drivers side will probably be slightly higher after new shackle and passenger side as well.
So, it looks like these spring packs give 2.25" of lift, I'll know for sure tomorrow with the new shackles.

BEFORE lift


Now..

[1971ford]

What site are you reading all of the spring info from? Pirate?

Some pirate, mostly... hate to say it.. I had to...



FTE

[CrypticRacer13]

as long as your just reading on that site haha ive been on that site since 05 an its just a joke to me how the guys all are with helping people an their projects. everyone is 10ft tall sitting behind the desk on that site haha

[fireguywtc]

Great job Ryan, looks really good! Wish I would have known about that when I did my lift. Can't wait to hear how well in rides when its all done.

[robroy]

'Evening Ryan! Yet another awesome thread and modification--it looks superb.

It's not the working part that takes forever its the thinking, so once i have this side done the other side will be probably 30 minutes while this side is 5 hours.

EXACTLY! I've noticed this too. When I need to take something apart again after putting it all together for the first time, I think, "Gosh this is going to be a big deal," then it's done in 5% the time I figured it would take! That's because the thinking's already done, and the thinking's the most time-consuming part!!!

Robroy

[mlheppl]

Hi Ryan, glad to see somebody trying this setup. I've been researching it and debating on whetther or not to go this route for a year. From what I've read, 5 and 3/8" center to center is supposed to be a good length for the rear shackles. I don't know this as a fact and am not sure how adding the extra springs to the pack will effect the required shackle length.

From what I understand, there are several different rated superduty springs depending upon which motor the superduty has (I'm guessing). Obviously the diesel springs are rated for higher loads than the v10 or v8 versions. When I looked at generalspringkc.com's website they have 5 or 6 different weights available. Talking with a friend of mine that used to work in an off road supply and shop, he told me to stay away from the excursion springs. He said that they have the same dimensions, but for some reason the springs on or for the excursions were soft and tended to sag very quickly.

[1971ford]

as long as your just reading on that site haha ive been on that site since 05 an its just a joke to me how the guys all are with helping people an their projects. everyone is 10ft tall sitting behind the desk on that site haha

Yeah it just seemed all the superduty swap info was on there, had to grab the info!

Great job Ryan, looks really good! Wish I would have known about that when I did my lift. Can't wait to hear how well in rides when its all done.

Well atleast you know you've got proven leaf springs that are made for these trucks

'Evening Ryan! Yet another awesome thread and modification--it looks superb.

It's not the working part that takes forever its the thinking, so once i have this side done the other side will be probably 30 minutes while this side is 5 hours.

EXACTLY! I've noticed this too. When I need to take something apart again after putting it all together for the first time, I think, "Gosh this is going to be a big deal," then it's done in 5% the time I figured it would take! That's because the thinking's already done, and the thinking's the most time-consuming part!!!

Robroy

Yep, It's noticeable when you have to do the procedure, then have to do it again. Such as installing the drivers side leaf pack in 5 hour sand passenger side in 20-30 minutes!

Hi Ryan, glad to see somebody trying this setup. I've been researching it and debating on whetther or not to go this route for a year. From what I've read, 5 and 3/8" center to center is supposed to be a good length for the rear shackles. I don't know this as a fact and am not sure how adding the extra springs to the pack will effect the required shackle length.

From what I understand, there are several different rated superduty springs depending upon which motor the superduty has (I'm guessing). Obviously the diesel springs are rated for higher loads than the v10 or v8 versions. When I looked at generalspringkc.com's website they have 5 or 6 different weights available. Talking with a friend of mine that used to work in an off road supply and shop, he told me to stay away from the excursion springs. He said that they have the same dimensions, but for some reason the springs on or for the excursions were soft and tended to sag very quickly.

Interesting, all i found for suggested shackle length was 5 3/4" but the guy had lift springs. I guessed and came out too short with a 4 1/2" shackle. SO today i made all new shackles, at 5 1/4" center to center. Looks like i may of nailed it dead on...

Yeah there are different rated springs, mine are gas superduty springs, i heard you don't want the diesel (too much weight??). These seem to be perfect

I finished the lift and drove it to work, did great, pics and more info in a little bit!

[1971ford]

New shackles. I whipped them up at work and threw them on the truck in amazingly only a few minutes (had to get them on super fast to get from work #1 to work #2).
I need to pull them back off, round the corners, clean them up, paint them and either space the upper shackle ends out (at the bushing) or put wider poly bushings in. I heard 80's toyota bushings swap right in and space it correctly.

You can see the 5 1/4" center to center shackles clear the frame nicely now. The springs do not have much arch, not any more than highboy springs do. When the springs compress to where the spring is flat (longest point of cycle) there will still be tons of room between the leaf and frame.
I think i'm actually going to make a 3rd set of shackles, right around 4 3/4. This way I get just enough clearance and the least amount of caster change as possible.
With the 5 1/4" shackles i think it is a tad harder to steer. Affecting the caster angle in this way makes the steering "slower" (think of a chopper style bike steering slower than a bike with the handlebars right over the wheel).
It's hard to tell because i am going from 45psi skinny 31's to 35 psi 35's so the steering will be much harder with manual steering. Either way, the caster had little affect on steering although I think I feel it.
I've had death wobble with this truck on 35's every time i put the 35's on, didn't get any death wobble today with the lift/shackles, although don't believe i went quite as fast.

Backing out the driveway off the curb i was immediately suprised with how much softer the springs are. The stock highboy springs off the curb was just a simple SLAM. But with the "new" leaf springs, coming off the curb the front suspension actually moved to absorb a LOT more of the slight impact.

Notching the flatbed for tire clearance then i'll be testing how it articulates tomorrow. Really wish i had some new shocks, the rear has 2wd shocks that are about limited as is, gives me little flex... and the front shocks are corrrect for the truck but I plan on making new upper mounts for a longer travel shock. I may pull the shocks tomorrow.


I'm happy with my $60 lift so far (not counting the $25 in bolts i bought, and still need to replace my u-bolts as they were in poor shape).

[BigBlueF250]

I have scrapped SO many sets of these over the years installing lifts in late model trucks......next set goes in MY truck....Thanks Ryan for all the info!!






Steve