Could I ask for advice on the March multi-groove pulley kit?

[70_F100]

Robroy, the second photo really gives a good representation of the belt alignment.

Ii appears that, at the top of the crank pulley and the bottom of the water pump pulley, the belt makes a slight bend. You can see what I'm talking about in the attached edited photo.

Robroy Pulley Alignment.jpg

It may be an optical illusion, but I think the crank pulley is offset to the rear slightly.

I truly believe the spacer Tom gave you is correct for your setup.

I know it's a lot to ask, but is there a chance you could change the spacer and take a similar shot with the other spacer installed?

[robroy]

Good afternoon HayHauler and 70_F100, thanks for the excellent replies!

thats a very nice setup you've got there!! snazzy!

Thanks very much! I like the setup and it definitely looks nice, yet it has taken a fair amount of fiddling around to get it all to fit in an ideal way (and perhaps it still isn't an ideal fit). Also, since going this route I've heard from many sources that it's really not a necessary upgrade, especially for my simple, single belt setup.

During my visits to FE Specialties, I've noted that even very high performance, 427-powered vehicles tend to retain the stock V-belt configuration.

Robroy, the second photo really gives a good representation of the belt alignment.

I think it might indeed!

Ii appears that, at the top of the crank pulley and the bottom of the water pump pulley, the belt makes a slight bend. You can see what I'm talking about in the attached edited photo.

Robroy Pulley Alignment.jpg

Thanks for taking the time to illustrate what you're seeing in the photo!

I see it too, and I suspect that the crankshaft pulley is set back a little.

It may be an optical illusion, but I think the crank pulley is offset to the rear slightly.

I'll go out there and eyeball it more closely! The potential for optical illusions is high here. When I'm looking at it in person, slight head movements cause marked changes in the signals being sent from my eyes to my brain.

Yet even when I attempted to measure this (in my crude way, with a tape measure), I did see that the crankshaft pulley seemed to be recessed perhaps 1/32".

I truly believe the spacer Tom gave you is correct for your setup.

I know what you mean--I have that suspicion too.

I know it's a lot to ask, but is there a chance you could change the spacer and take a similar shot with the other spacer installed?

That's probably a good idea! I'll go out there and eyeball it again, and try to make another measurement also. If the crankshaft pulley does seem recessed more than 1/32" or so I may try Tom's spacer as advised!

I'd normally try this more whimsically, but I installed the crankshaft pulley using medium-strength "blue" thread-lock, and my custom-made spacer is very difficult to remove from the pilot. I might need to apply some heat to it to get it to loosen up on there, which is a trick I haven't tried before.

The thread-lock isn't hard at all to snap apart; it's just a hassle to clean the crusty thread-lock out of the threads before putting it back together.

All that said, here's my chief reason for using my custom-made spacer instead of Tom's. With the custom-made spacer, the March crankshaft pulley slides on to the pilot and seems to leave about 1/64" of pilot sticking out when it's fully seated. Since Tom's spacer would be an increase in thickness of about 1/16", I'd be left with negative 3/64" of pilot remaining, which would mean less than full engagement of the crankshaft pulley.

So this leads to the question, "Which is more important, full engagement of the crankshaft pulley, or improved alignment?"

Two natural inputs to that question come to mind: how much pulley engagement would be remaining if 3/64" were subtracted from 100% engagement, and exactly how recessed is the crankshaft pulley now? It's easy to measure the first input, while the second's not so easy.

70_F100, thanks for your wonderful advice and for provoking me to look at this more closely! What are your thoughts on the above?

Robroy

[70_F100]

That's a tough call.

Improper belt alignment will cause premature wear on the belt, and since the pulleys are aluminum, it could cause them to wear, also.

On the other hand, improper centering of the pulley on the balancer could create an off-balance condition, which you DEFINITELY don't want.

I think if I had this situation to deal with, I'd probably use the thicker spacer, then use a dial indicator to center the pulley. Once it's tightened down, it's not going anywhere.

The end result would be that your pulleys are correctly aligned and the crank pulley would be centered on the balancer.

I think it was Alvin who suggested getting the dial indicator and magnetic base from Harbor Freight, and this would be a perfect application for that setup.

[fuzzier1]

Robroy and everyone else. I think you are over thinking this. That being said I am not there and Robroy is. If it were me I would find a straight edge and place it across the front of the crank pulley (the edge all the way across the face so that it is touching bothsides of the face of the pulley), slide it up to where it is close to the water pump pulley and take an accurate as possible measurement that I could and then make a decision. From what I see I would run it as is, but as I stated I am not there. I hope this helps.

Fuzz

[fuzzier1]

Robroy,

Personally I think you would be fine as is but on the other hand you have the thicker spacer so why not put it on there and take the measurements and/or visual inspections again. If it comes out closer than your made spacer then you are good to go.

Fuzz

[robroy]

Good afternoon!

I just spoke with Tom Lucas, and heard that when he removed the spacer before, he heated it with a propane torch for 10-15 seconds to get it to around 200 degrees Fahrenheit (he measured that with his infra-red temperature gauge). At that temperature, he used a super thin flat-head screwdriver to pry it loose.

So unless I hear otherwise, I'm going to go out there and give it a whirl! Maybe I'll video record it and post it here, just in case anything dramatic happens.

Thanks for all the fantastic advice!
Robroy

[Power By Ford 70 F250 4x4]

I hate to ask anything at a time when your trying to figure out a problem,but I will anyway.Could you tell me where you got your alternator and what part # thanks.

[robroy]

Good afternoon Power By Ford 70 F250 4x4, thanks for replying!

I hate to ask anything at a time when your trying to figure out a problem,but I will anyway.Could you tell me where you got your alternator and what part # thanks.

Absolutely no problem! I bought the alternator from March Performance (part# P561), although it began its life as a Tuff Stuff product. There are more details and photos in: Is the PA Performance 4ga alternator wire recommended?

I'd be happy to go in to more detail--if you have more questions on the alternator, would it be possible to post to Is the PA Performance 4ga alternator wire recommended? That way we can keep the topics separated out a little better.

Have a great afternoon Power By Ford 70 F250 4x4!
Robroy

[FreakysFords]

You got it, grab a good propane hand torch (your little solder type should work, will only take a little longer), swell it and remove it.

[robroy]

Good afternoon Frank, thanks for replying!

You got it, grab a good propane hand torch (your little solder type should work, will only take a little longer), swell it and remove it.

Excellent, thanks Frank!

The heat was a success! Here's a video of the removal process. Nothing dramatic happened, yet it might still be of interest, especially to anybody like me who hasn't used heat to take things apart before (perhaps that's not many of you).

The high quality H.264 video will play only on up-to-date computers, while the WMV video will play just about anywhere.

H.264 (47MB) WMV (40MB)


In retrospect, I probably could have avoided damaging the spacer and balancer by simply applying more heat (more on that next)--I was just concerned about getting the area too hot!

I bent the custom-made spacer slightly. This probably isn't a big deal, and I'm guessing that it would squash down evenly if it were sandwiched between the pulley and balancer again.



I also scratched up the face of the balancer. The scratches aren't very deep, so I think I'll still be OK. You may wish to click on this next photo to see the large version, for a better look at the damage.



This is the worst, deepest scratch (it's quite zoomed in).



Do y'all think I should go over those scratches lightly with emery cloth to make sure they're fully concave, with no tiny convex portions? Or perhaps you'd recommend another way to address them?

Thanks again for your excellent reply Frank!
Robroy

[FreakysFords]

Robroy,

If you've got an old or broken flat file that you don't mind "killing", you can make things easy here.

I've got a 3/4" wide "fine cut" file that the had somehow managed to get broken in half. I cut a section about as long as it is wide (not exactly 3/4 x 3/4). This is handy for small areas such as what you have here. You want to remove material in the effected area only and with some gentle passes over the high spots (not allowing file to reach the edge or anywhere near the bolt holes) will do wonders. Even if there is a tiny amount protruding, the aluminum of the spacer will likely absorb it. We're talking a thousandth or so though, not huge variances.

I "think" you can make sense of that. Whatever you use, try to work in only as small an area as you can and not to the edge or near a bolt hole as these "could" allow warpage on install.

Frank

PS: Before I thought of the broken file, I did in fact normally use emery cloth wrapped over the tip of a flat head screw driver to achieve the results (just takes much longer and my knuckles no longer like such things. )

[70_F100]

Robroy, keep in mind this may be a moot point.

Install the thicker spacer to see if it provides the proper alignment, and if it does, just put the custom-made spacer away for a rainy-day project!!

[BobbyFord]

I know Robroy is in the final stages of getting his set-up together, but...
FWIW, I was at by buddies shop the other day, he does high-end fabrication (there's a 69 Camaro in his shop, the guy has over $100,000 in...), he said Billet Specialties is the only way to go - bolt on, no hassle. He has experience with just about every brand out there.

[robroy]

Good evening Frank, 70_F100, and Bobby, thanks for replying!

If you've got an old or broken flat file that you don't mind "killing", you can make things easy here.

I've got a flat file, yet it's in beautiful shape with low "miles," and it's USA-made; I'm not sure if I'm ready to slice a piece out of it or not!

I've got a 3/4" wide "fine cut" file that the had somehow managed to get broken in half. I cut a section about as long as it is wide (not exactly 3/4 x 3/4). This is handy for small areas such as what you have here.

Gosh, that does sound like a very handy tool to have around! And that's something I would have never thought to do (to cut a file). Interesting!

You want to remove material in the effected area only and with some gentle passes over the high spots (not allowing file to reach the edge or anywhere near the bolt holes) will do wonders.

That sounds like a great idea, thanks! Thankfully, none of the scratches are right next to the bolt holes or the edges.

Even if there is a tiny amount protruding, the aluminum of the spacer will likely absorb it.

That's a great point!

We're talking a thousandth or so though, not huge variances.

OK!

I "think" you can make sense of that.

Sure can Frank--thanks for explaining your special 3/4" X 3/4" file idea!

Whatever you use, try to work in only as small an area as you can and not to the edge or near a bolt hole as these "could" allow warpage on install.

I'll most certainly keep these points in mind. Thanks!

PS: Before I thought of the broken file, I did in fact normally use emery cloth wrapped over the tip of a flat head screw driver to achieve the results (just takes much longer and my knuckles no longer like such things. :lol

Oh I see! It sounds like you've traveled this road of scratch-smoothing many times. I appreciate your advice!

Robroy, keep in mind this may be a moot point.

Install the thicker spacer to see if it provides the proper alignment, and if it does, just put the custom-made spacer away for a rainy-day project!!

Sounds perfect, thanks! I'll give this a whirl and report the results in detail.

I know Robroy is in the final stages of getting his set-up together, but...FWIW, I was at by buddies shop the other day, he does high-end fabrication (there's a 69 Camaro in his shop, the guy has over $100,000 in...), he said Billet Specialties is the only way to go - bolt on, no hassle. He has experience with just about every brand out there.

That's very interesting Bobby, and great to know about for the future!

Although the quality of the March parts themselves seems absolutely spotless, this thread is evidence enough that a number of subtle tricks may be required to get the kit installed with proper alignment.

I can understand that March designed the kit around a stock 390, and perhaps the aftermarket parts on my engine have subtly different dimensions. Yet I'd be rather curious to try a Billet Specialties kit on this same setup to see how they compare.

Frank, 70_F100, and Bobby, thanks very much for your excellent replies!
Robroy

[BobbyFord]

Billet Specialties are very expensive for a complete set up.