5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Clutch, transmission, rear axle

Moderators: FORDification, 70_F100

5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Postby Racer Z on Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:49 pm

Some of us have been chatting about overdrives and how to make it work with an automatic transmission in these two threads.
http://www.fordification.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=55140
http://www.fordification.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=55210

It seems to me that it is not financially practical.

What about the manual transmission?  They're a bit more efficient and should be easier to adapt.  My thinking tells me that a 5-speed, granny low with over drive should work well and be easy to find.  But, which ones might work.  Has anybody done this before?  (most likely)  And how did they do it.  It would need to be robust enough to withstand the riggers of a fully loaded work truck towing a trailer up hills.

My application is an F250 with a 390 FE big block.
Racer Z
 

Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Postby 71highboy on Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:24 pm

they do have a thread on here for the manual transmission swaps i have read them but my age and my mind have left me blank on where i read it.
User avatar
71highboy
Blue Oval Fanatic
Blue Oval Fanatic
 
Posts: 879
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:55 am
Location: south dakota

Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Postby eggman918 on Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:24 pm

I went through this same thought process abaut a year and a half ago,but my 390 had a problem that cost just enough to make me retire it.
I think the easiest way with an FE would be a NV4500  :2cents:
Steve.
Steve

The"Filthy Beast"- '68 F-250 Crew Cab 131"W/B 4x4 4BT/M5R2/dana 24TC /3.54 44 trutrack front/60 trutrack rear. 2nd owner
http://s1042.photobucket.com/albums/b429/eggman918/
"Beauty is only skin deep....Ugly is to the bone"
It is more important to understand what you don't know than what you do know,because then you can start to learn..???
"you must deal with the attaboys and the ass chewing s with your head up and looking them in the eyes" T.J.E. aka My Dad
There are only three types of people wolfs, sheepdogs, and sheep. What are you?
User avatar
eggman918
Blue Oval Fanatic
Blue Oval Fanatic
 
Posts: 783
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:56 pm
Location: Bakersfield CA.

Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Postby Racer Z on Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:35 pm

71highboy wrote:they do have a thread on here for the manual transmission swaps i have read them but my age and my mind have left me blank on where i read it.

Didn't show up in my searches.  How about a link?
Racer Z
 

Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Postby 1971ford on Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:47 am

You can do a ZF5 behind the FE.
high impact makes the adapter piece.

Of course, get ready to spend moneyz!
-Ryan
1969 F250 4x4 - Frame-off rebuild, Cummins, built 518, Flatbed, 4" lift, 37" tires, and much more
Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=26870&start=840
SOLD -1971 F100 Offroad Race Truck - 429C.I., ATO fully built c6, 22" wheel travel, Engine/cab/bed cage, 35's, hydraulic bump stops, coilovers, Alcan leaf springs
Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=33697&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=615
User avatar
1971ford
100% FORDified!
100% FORDified!
 
Posts: 5590
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:05 pm
Location: California, Folsom

Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Postby Racer Z on Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:55 am

I'm not interested in a 3-speed.  I don't expect to be able to use OD while loaded or pulling a trailer, and certainly not while going up the Grapevine with a load.

The gear that is 1:1 is always the strongest because it's a straight through gear.  The input shaft and the output shaft are locked together and the counter shaft is not being used.
Racer Z
 

Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Postby averagef250 on Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:52 pm

There are plenty of options out there besides using a car tranny. Car tranny isn't a great idea BTW. The bigger issue here doesn't seam to be finding the tranny, it seams to be paying for it.

Why hasn't every bump been upgraded with new drivetrain? Because it isn't a justifiable expense. There's no $10 overdrive out there.
1970 F-250 4x4 original Willock swivel frame chassis '93 5.9 Cummins/Getrag/NP205/HP60/D70
User avatar
averagef250
100% FORDified!
100% FORDified!
 
Posts: 4388
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:58 am
Location: Oregon, Beavercreek

Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Postby fireguywtc on Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:24 pm

averagef250 wrote:There are plenty of options out there besides using a car tranny. Car tranny isn't a great idea BTW. The bigger issue here doesn't seam to be finding the tranny, it seams to be paying for it.

Why hasn't every bump been upgraded with new drivetrain? Because it isn't a justifiable expense. There's no $10 overdrive out there.

:yt: I am looking to get a ZF-5 for my 460 build for the 67. I want a five speed and have accepted that is is going to cost me around 1k for a good rebuilt one, including clutch and such. I haven't looked into it too much yet though. The rebuild kit for an NP435 is about $250.
Bill
1967 F-250 LWB 2WD 352 V8, 4spd manual, true duals, 122k original miles (currently being restored)
1970 F-250 4x4 highboy ranger 390 V8, 4spd
2012 F-350 PSD FX4 LWB CC lariat, platinum white
http://www.fordification.com/galleries/ ... hp?uid=602
"If you want to judge a person's true character, give them power."
User avatar
fireguywtc
100% FORDified!
100% FORDified!
 
Posts: 3340
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:37 pm
Location: Texas, Salado

Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Postby Racer Z on Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:46 pm

This thread is about matching a 5-speed to an FE block.  Clearly it would easier to change the engine and trans as a set from a newer truck.

I would not even consider using a car trans in a big truck for several reasons.  The main reason is that it won't handle to torque and will wear out quickly.  
Trucks usually have wide ratio transmission, cars have a medium ratio gear spread and race cars (road racing) prefer a close ratio transmission.  As a sports truck, the medium ratio might be ok, but as a real work truck with heavy loads, the wide ratios work better.  This has more to do with the power band of the engine.  
Trucks tend to have low speed engines with a broad power band.
Racer Z
 

Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Postby averagef250 on Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:31 pm

Racer Z wrote:This thread is about matching a 5-speed to an FE block.  Clearly it would easier to change the engine and trans as a set from a newer truck.

I would not even consider using a car trans in a big truck for several reasons.  The main reason is that it won't handle to torque and will wear out quickly.  
Trucks usually have wide ratio transmission, cars have a medium ratio gear spread and race cars (road racing) prefer a close ratio transmission.  As a sports truck, the medium ratio might be ok, but as a real work truck with heavy loads, the wide ratios work better.  This has more to do with the power band of the engine.  
Trucks tend to have low speed engines with a broad power band.



You have an understanding that transmissions have differing ratio sets for differing applications, but your idea of what's suited to what application is somewhat inaccurate.
1970 F-250 4x4 original Willock swivel frame chassis '93 5.9 Cummins/Getrag/NP205/HP60/D70
User avatar
averagef250
100% FORDified!
100% FORDified!
 
Posts: 4388
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:58 am
Location: Oregon, Beavercreek

Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Postby Racer Z on Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:49 pm

averagef250 wrote:
Racer Z wrote:Trucks usually have wide ratio transmission, cars have a medium ratio gear spread and race cars (road racing) prefer a close ratio transmission.  As a sports truck, the medium ratio might be ok, but as a real work truck with heavy loads, the wide ratios work better.  This has more to do with the power band of the engine.  
Trucks tend to have low speed engines with a broad power band.



You have an understanding that transmissions have differing ratio sets for differing applications, but your idea of what's suited to what application is somewhat inaccurate.

Then explain your concept to us.
Racer Z
 

Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Postby survivorman on Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:34 pm

Your basically on your own unless you want to do one of the few swaps available for FE's.

The T5 is a easy enough swap if you have a top-loader, and of course there are major trans companys building high performance ones for top loader applications. TKO, Keisler, and Richmond all produce heavy duty trans for performance use.

Also your factory stick is probilt not much better then best top-loader or in case of Chevy M-22.

Theres always switching clutches for the proper spline count, drilling your bell housing for the proper pattern, and possable the shaft being the right length. If it is too long you can use a spacer. If it is too short I have no idea.
Sitzungstiefpunkt und fahrend langsam
User avatar
survivorman
New Member
New Member
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:28 am
Location: Chino Hills, Ca

Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Postby akuma10408 on Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:32 am

averagef250 wrote:You have an understanding that transmissions have differing ratio sets for differing applications, but your idea of what's suited to what application is somewhat inaccurate.


I have to smile when I read this because it's both honest and true.

Making the statement that cars prefer Y, truckes prefer Y and race cars prefer Z assumes a lot, which I'm sure you realize. It would be more accurate to say that the transmission (gear ratios included) in a given vehicle should be appropriately matched to the vehicle's weight and engine, broadly speaking. A fairly light vehicle with a broad powerband would be well-suited to a transmission with tall, widely spaced gearing. Something like a Ford F-1 with a flathead 6. This is in line with what you've said.

Conversely, over the road tractors have very close ratio transmissions, much closer than anything I can think of. Their powerband is broad throughout their RPM range but since they must move such heavy loads, close, short ratios are required to give adequate mechanical advantage. As you might expect, they also have many more gears. Additionally, they have a low redline. Contrary to what you said, the heaviest trucks actually tend to have close gearing.

Both are trucks, but have very different gearing. It has everything to do with torque curve and weight, and also redline.
User avatar
akuma10408
New Member
New Member
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:30 pm
Location: Powers Lake, ND

Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Postby FreakysFords on Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:36 pm

Just a side note. The torque of the FE in ANY variant will kill many transmissions. The T5 would not be an option for me. Then I've killed W/C T5s with a Volvo 2.3 4cyl.

My own personal route is to get my hands on a top loader and some mid 2s rear gears. I'm running 3.5s now with a 3sp and am getting good mileage (was, still sitting needing a radiator, steering column shaft, flex joint and potentially a water pump since the accident).

Lastly, averagef250 speaks wisdom.
Darlin 69 Ranger 390 4v, PS, DS II, disc front, 3G alternator, 67 mirror.
User avatar
FreakysFords
Blue Oval Fanatic
Blue Oval Fanatic
 
Posts: 824
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:58 pm
Location: Gadsden Alabama

Next

[ Previous topic | Next topic ]

Return to Drivetrain

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Be sure to visit our sister site!