Dragon wrote:Broken ring and that would explain the oily look to #3 Something wrong with 2 wrist pins naw but two rings broken I have seen that more than once. That does not look bad enough to require sleeving unless it is already at .060 over.
If so, it's strange that both cylinders broke rings in the same area.
#3 is deeper than the #1 I couldn't get a good angle on #3 for the pic. I would have to agree with BobbyFord, because of the same location.
I would say they have to do the fix if they are at fault, but I know that they will try to say it's not. I'll just pay for the cam install, or should I since they are going to take the motor back apart?
Those who do not learn the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat it.
sport71 wrote:I would say they have to do the fix if they are at fault, but I know that they will try to say it's not. I'll just pay for the cam install, or should I since they are going to take the motor back apart?
They would be able to reuse your cam, lifters and so forth so you should certainly pay for the parts. They'll need to do some of the checks we've talked about too so some labor would probably be appropriate. If they have to bore/sleeve they are going to have to strip it to a bare block so it the cam change won't be a lot of extra work (heads not withstanding) but a little bit to ensure no problems...
I have seen keeper rings pop out and they make a wider gouge. Most builders that I knew alway placed the ring gaps in the same place on every piston Put top in line with pin hole and middle with opposite side then oil back on the original line with the top. So yes in the same place makes sense to me.
Old Fords Rule Was a Ford Service Tech
71 F250 with Shell Car 390 NP435 Dana 60 3.73s, PS, PB, 750 EC VS Holley Accel Points Eliminator.
98 Volvo S70 2.4T Auto 71 Service manuals Volumes 1,2,3 and 4 So ask away. My Gallery Spark test
Dragon wrote:I have seen keeper rings pop out and they make a wider gouge. Most builders that I knew alway placed the ring gaps in the same place on every piston Put top in line with pin hole and middle with opposite side then oil back on the original line with the top. So yes in the same place makes sense to me.
I have to agree with you on that Dragon.
We'll just have to see once the pistons come out.
Oh well, the work still has to get done.
Why do you think the rings would be broken though, they're new?
Those who do not learn the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat it.
I'm getting all the parts for the 30507 Lunati. Now, do you guys think all I need is the 8 exaust springs, since the ones I have for the intake are ok for the .563 ?
Those who do not learn the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat it.
sport71 wrote:
Why do you think the rings would be broken though, they're new?
They over stress them putting them around the pistons. Last thing I would let someone wanting to help do to a customers pistons is put rings on. The Moly faced rings I use have a cast back and since the face is thinner they are more prone to cracking if stretched out too far. I wrap electrical tape over the top of the piston down to the 2nd ring gap then slide the ring on the tape. Then I do the top ring the same way. That way I don't scratch the piston or over stress the ring.
Another thing that might have caused the scratch. If the rings were not gapped right they could have been too tight and the end popped out of the ring groove part way trying to relieve the pressure.
Old Fords Rule Was a Ford Service Tech
71 F250 with Shell Car 390 NP435 Dana 60 3.73s, PS, PB, 750 EC VS Holley Accel Points Eliminator.
98 Volvo S70 2.4T Auto 71 Service manuals Volumes 1,2,3 and 4 So ask away. My Gallery Spark test
I tend to go with the lightest spring to get the job done. I feel the pressure is what does the trashing of cams. I have not had a cam fail, ever. You could get away with it sure but remeber you engine is going to pull more RPMS now. Therefor I would put in the full set.
I just talked to the owner of the shop, like I said he is trying to blame me Saying that there's no garantee on race motors. Also that a piece of the aluminum intake caused that damage and that the piece must have jumped around in the motor and landed in the exact same area as the other piston. I told him that there's no nicks anywhere on the pistons. Oh, and that it gets caught between the piston and the wall so you won't see any nicks. The motor, he said has 6 months waranty. I told him only after starting the motor, and that's been like 2 months. He doesn't want to say that they have any fault what so ever??
Now if it was something floatting around, and caused that damage, would you think it's worth fixing the sleeve, or should I just get a new block? Even though I know I won't find one around here.
I'll just go with the full LUNATI spring set. I would hate to mess any thing up.
Those who do not learn the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat it.
B...S... on him. If you get another block get it bored and align the main saddles then put your parts in. There is no way a piece jumped from #3 to #1. I blew a 428 at 8500 rpm and the parts did go into the intake but not front to back but right to left. So #3 to #7. They would have had to turn 2 90 degree corners.
There are FEs all over here in New Mexico.
Old Fords Rule Was a Ford Service Tech
71 F250 with Shell Car 390 NP435 Dana 60 3.73s, PS, PB, 750 EC VS Holley Accel Points Eliminator.
98 Volvo S70 2.4T Auto 71 Service manuals Volumes 1,2,3 and 4 So ask away. My Gallery Spark test
Have you pulled those 2 pistons out to actually see what caused the scoring? There's no way to really tell what happened without pulling them.
It might be a good idea to videotape as you pull them, just in case it is a keeper or wrist pin. That way you'd have solid evidence to take back to the builder.
One other option might be to have the builder pull those pistons in your presence, or have another shop tear it down and document their findings.
A knowledgeable, reputable engine builder would not have given you an answer as to what happened without tearing it down.
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something.--Plato
Why is it that there's seldom time to fix it right the first time, but there's always time to fix it right the second time???
That's not an oil leakThat's SWEATfrom all thatHORSEPOWER!!
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something.--Plato
Why is it that there's seldom time to fix it right the first time, but there's always time to fix it right the second time???
That's not an oil leakThat's SWEATfrom all thatHORSEPOWER!!
Saying that there's no garantee on race motors. Also that a piece of the aluminum intake caused that damage and that the piece must have jumped around in the motor and landed in the exact same area as the other piston. I told him that there's no nicks anywhere on the pistons. Oh, and that it gets caught between the piston and the wall so you won't see any nicks. The motor, he said has 6 months waranty. I told him only after starting the motor, and that's been like 2 months. He doesn't want to say that they have any fault what so ever?? 
