T19a from Novak or locally rebuilt T18-1E.

[robroy]

Good evening,

After lots of reading and comparing, I think I've narrowed the transmission choice down to either the T18-1E (the one I already have) rebuilt by a local shop, or a rebuilt T19 from Advance Adapters. I'm thinking that Advance Adapters is a good place to get the T19 from since I'm under the impression that they're highly reputable.

My application has these specs:

1. 1972 F250 8,100lb GVW, 2WD
2. Proformanceunlimited 390 (436HP, makes power from 2,000 to 6,000 RPM)
3. Dana 60 3.73 non-limited slip rear
4. Stock wheels and tires
5. Had a T18-1E and 360 from the factory
6. Plan on using it for horsing around (as a toy) mainly, for transportation sometimes, and for off roading and towing rarely.
7. Am looking for transmission options that are easy "bolt in" installations (which means the T18, T19, or NP435, as far as I know).

I could use some advice on which choice is best here. In particular:

1. Knowing that the T18-1E is a "wide ratio" and the T19 is a "close ratio" transmission, which choice would fit my application best? And why?
2. Is Advance Adapters really as reputable as I think they are? Would anybody hesitate to order the T19 from them?

Thanks for the outstanding advice!
-Robroy

[robroy]

One more question: What about Novak Conversions as a source for a rebuilt T19? They seem the same price wise as advance adapters, although their web site does a lot more to encourage confidence in the build with lots of detailed writing about the process they go through. Anybody have experience with them?

Thanks!
-Robroy

[peanutman]

Iv'e heard good things about novak, not sure on advance. t18 vs t19 I think t18's and parts are easier to find, there practically the same tranny, but in any case i would go with a rep local builder.

[pollock]

One note about the T19 being close-ratio:

I just bought a T19 from a local guy on Craigslist. He seemed to know a lot about them and had rebuilt one and swapped it into his dentside.

According to the Fordification Tech section, T-19's have a 5.11:1 first gear. However, according to the guy I bought from, T-19's were actually made with 3 different gearing options, the other two being a 4.XX:1 (mostly found in diesel trucks) and a granny first (presumably similar to T-18s).

So if you go T-19, make sure you are getting the one you want.

[Alvin in AZ]

Hmmm... first thing that comes to my mind, is about skipping first gear.
Do you want to (like to) do that?

I drove an '89 Bronco from Craing's List and one of the things that struck
me funny is I had to shift into 1st (left and up) every time from a stop
like a car. But it did have a whole "low range" for crawling that had been
separated out. Not good or bad, just is.

Alvin "can't find 'em grind 'em" in AZ

[robroy]

Iv'e heard good things about novak, not sure on advance.

Hey Peanutman! Thanks for your reply. Good to know that Novak is as good as their web site looks; I'll give them a call to ask about their T19a transmission.

One note about the T19 being close-ratio:

I just bought a T19 from a local guy on Craigslist. He seemed to know a lot about them and had rebuilt one and swapped it into his dentside.

According to the Fordification Tech section, T-19's have a 5.11:1 first gear. However, according to the guy I bought from, T-19's were actually made with 3 different gearing options, the other two being a 4.XX:1 (mostly found in diesel trucks) and a granny first (presumably similar to T-18s).

So if you go T-19, make sure you are getting the one you want.

Good point! Thanks for replying Pollock. Which ratio did you wind up with? I'm interested in the 4.02:1 ratio edition (with the tallest gears). That edition is for sale, rebuilt, from Novak for $1,090, which seems like a great deal to me.

Here's a chart I made that shows the ratio differences between the T18-1E and T19a (the two I'm trying to choose between):



As you can see, the T19a has way taller gears, which would mean, for example:

1. With a 5,000 RPM shift, I'd shift from third to high gear at 70MPH with the T18-1E, and 85MPH with the T19a.
2. The T18-1E would see a 3,000 RPM drop between granny and second, which probably doesn't matter much since I'd rarely use that gear. The T19a would see a 2,000 RPM drop between granny and second.
3. Both transmissions see a 2,000 RPM drop between second and third.
4. The T18-1E sees a 2,000 RPM drop between third and high, while the T19a shows a 1,500 RPM drop here.

Given this ratio comparison, and given that my engine produces most of its power between 2,000 and 6,000 RPM, does the T19a look like a better choice?

Thanks for the superb and copious advice!
-Robroy

[robroy]

Hmmm... first thing that comes to my mind, is about skipping first gear.
Do you want to (like to) do that?

Hey Alvin! I'm pretty sure by first you mean granny, and yes indeed I always did that with the T18-1E. On that transmission though, granny is a spur gear with no synch' and is very low, so it's natural to skip it. But on the T18-1E, even when starting in second gear, I'd only stay in second gear for a VERY short amount of distance on the road before shifting up to third. If I were starting out in a decline I'd even start out in third with no issues.

Based on this, I'm guessing that second gear on the T19a (2.41:1), would still be just fine for starting out.

Thanks Alvin!
-Robroy

[robroy]

Just called Novak; they said that they'd tack on $200 for shipping, which would come to $1,290., and that it would take them about 7-8 business days to rebuild it. So the earliest I could expect it would the March 18th.

I might go this route! Any thoughts on the ratios?

Thanks!
-Robroy

[Alvin in AZ]

RR,
With your engine and your personal adaptability and your wad of cash
to spend... the T19 sounds like it'd be cool to try! :)

It wouldn't work out so good for me for all three reasons listed above.

I've got 31.5" tires (235/85-16) and a 3.50 axle and a 360FE.
Second sometimes seems a little too high already to start it rolling,
sometimes.

I changed it to 3.50 myself, it was 3.25 and even "worser". ;)
{edit: went from 2080rpm @ 60mph to 2240rpm @ 60mph}
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/Ford9inch.jpg (a tool I made)


Alvin in AZ
ps- The only vehicles I have experience with that had L+1+2+3
on the four speed gear shift knob were Chevies.
Always struck me as a sissy-assed way to do it.
Sales staff did that, not the engineers, betcha. ;)
So yeah... "granny = 1st gear" to me -if- it's really low.

[robroy]

Just called Advanced Adapters. They said they could have it to my door in about a week, and that they don't rebuild them themselves--they hire it out to a company named, "Alltrans." Also, they don't have the 4.02:1 low gear edition--they have a 5.XX:1 edition that I'm less interested in.

Anybody know what this "Allgrans" company is all about? The guy didn't necessarily sound too proud about telling me that's where they came from, and he didn't offer that information; I had to ask.

Thanks!
-Robroy

[Alvin in AZ]

http://www.alltransparts.com/
??
Alvin in AZ

[robroy]

Dustin, thanks for your reply!

Would it be possible for you to recommend the model numbers of a few large car 4 speeds, just to get me started on researching them?

Thanks again!
-Robroy

[averagef250]

The Ford toploader is the model. The toploader is the 4 speed used in Ford cars from 65 through 73. There are a bunch of minor variations, but the biggest choice to make is wide or close ratio gearing. I would suggest wide ratio which is easy to find.

If you're interested in the toploader option, start a new thread on it and ask specifics on what models would be suited to your needs, how one can mate to an FE truck motor and where you can buy the topshift parts if you chose to go that route.

I'm not a toploader expert. I work on them, but can't tell you the toploader ins and outs like some of the other guys here can. I can tell you they're one tough mother of a 4 speed.

[robroy]

Dustin, thank you very much! I'll check in to that. I appreciate all your great advice!

-Robroy

[robroy]

Good evening! Well I looked in to it a little bit, but I decided to just give the T18 a whirl instead of getting in to a project that could require modifying the truck somewhat to make another transmission fit. I dropped it off at a local shop today for a rebuild--the guy gave me a ballpark of $575 to $700 for the basic rebuild kit, and he seemed like a great guy (friendly, attentive to details, knowledgeable, and patient).

So I'll post the results of how this works out when it's all put together! And if I don't like it, I'll go for the Ford Toploader conversion instead of trying other truck transmissions. At least this way I'll know that I'm giving the T18 a fair chance since it'll be all nice a new, instead of judging how much I like it when it feels all worn out.

Dustin, thanks for all your excellent and generous words of wisdom. And thanks to Peanutman, Pollock, and Alvin for lending their great advice too.

-Robroy