Idles good but dies when in gear...complete engine rebuild

[Florian]

Thanks for your reply Dragon!

So you don´t think that the timing chain is worn out?

What indicates that there are no piston rings or a hole in the piston?


Best thing, I think, would be to do the timing chain first and then do a compression test again, with dry and wet testing. Then the difference between dry and wet test would give information about the piston rings. Right?

Will give the idle speed adjustment screw a look, readjust it if necessary and see if the fuel stops spraying out. You think I should give the carb cleaner additive to the fuel a try and pour it directly into the carb?


Thanks!

Florian

[70_F100]

Just do the simple test I mentioned first.

If that's not your problem, then go deeper.

[Dragon]

No compression on #1 indicates the hole or rings. The sheer amount of oil on most of your plugs tells me the engine is wore out. The timing chain might be shot but it will still pull more compression than that and when they wear out they usually just stop turning the cam or the cam and crank will go in and out of time as the chain slips. If they jump once they keep jumping.

How many other cylinders did you check? If you haven't checked more, try 7,5 and 3 that gives you a spread of fouled and not fouled plugs.

Adjusting the idle on the outside of the carb will not affect the gas spraying one bit. Only taking the carb apart will tell you what is wrong. Everything else is mute.

My engine is tired the cam and lifters are shot I leak oil like crazy and the clutch disc went out. So go to my gallery and look at my plugs. #6 is 80 to 75 compression and the rest are 120 to 100. The engine misses and it is number six. I do not have oil on the plugs nor do I need a wet dry compression test. It won't change the outcome. If you have no compression on the other cylinders the engine will turn real fast and not sound like it is starting. If the timing chain slipped enough to kill #1 it kills all the cylinders. You know no thump thump of cylinders hitting.

[70_F100]

I'm not going to get in a pi$$ing match here.

The oil on the plugs appears to be all external. The electrodes, for the most part, look good. The plugs pulled early in this thread supports this, also.

The fuel pump is electric, so it's not going to pulse only when the engine is cranking. Compression coming back through the intake valves will cause the fuel spray that you're experiencing, as shown in the video. I would be willing to bet you don't see that spray while spinning the engine with the plugs removed.

I won't say, by any stretch of the imagination, that the engine is not worn out. That is entirely possible. However, if the chain has jumped a couple of teeth, you'll see exactly what you're seeing. That could also explain most of the problems detailed earlier in the thread.

The simple test I described will take a minute or less, and will either confirm or refute my claims. If I'm wrong, so be it. I will accept that graciously. But I will say that there's no way I would start tearing down an engine and replacing parts without doing the simple tests first.

[Florian]

How many other cylinders did you check? If you haven't checked more, try 7,5 and 3 that gives you a spread of fouled and not fouled plugs.

I checked all cylinders dry and checked No. 1 cylinder wet. No cylinder had compression...I can´t imagine that a running engine looses all of it´s compression on all 8 cylinders because of the piston rings. Wouldn´t that mean that the piston rings failed on all cylinders at the exact same time?!

The oil on the plugs appears to be all external.

Could be that they got so oily on the outside because I cleaned the engine with brake cleaner prior to removing the plugs for the compression test to prevent any dirt from getting sucked in the engine.

I would be willing to bet you don't see that spray while spinning the engine with the plugs removed.

Can´t answer this one because I removed the fuel pump´s ground before testing the compression and now I already started to disassemble the engine in order to change the timing chain.

The simple test I described will take a minute or less, and will either confirm or refute my claims.

As I now know what is what down there, I got the timing mark to the timing pointer. The distributor-finger was then right between contact # 3 and 7. It must be the timing chain.


Started to disassemble all the stuff that was in the way, alternator, the fan belt, drained the radiator, removed the water hoses, removed the front part of the crankshaft pulley. Now I still need to remove the crankshaft pulley to get access to the timing chain cover. I already read that I´ll need a puller for it, but I couldn´t remove the center bolt. Tried it by hand with a ratchet and socket but couldn´t open the bolt and hold the pulley with the other hand..any tricks how to open the bolt?

[70_F100]

I checked all cylinders dry and checked No. 1 cylinder wet. No cylinder had compression...I can´t imagine that a running engine looses all of it´s compression on all 8 cylinders because of the piston rings. Wouldn´t that mean that the piston rings failed on all cylinders at the exact same time?!

Yes, and that is EXTREMELY unlikely!!

Started to disassemble all the stuff that was in the way, alternator, the fan belt, drained the radiator, removed the water hoses, removed the front part of the crankshaft pulley. Now I still need to remove the crankshaft pulley to get access to the timing chain cover. I already read that I´ll need a puller for it, but I couldn´t remove the center bolt. Tried it by hand with a ratchet and socket but couldn´t open the bolt and hold the pulley with the other hand..any tricks how to open the bolt?

Since you have a manual transmission, put the transmission in gear and set the parking brake (or have someone hold the brake pedal down).

That should hold the crankshaft enough for you to break the bolt loose.

[Florian]

Since you have a manual transmission, put the transmission in gear and set the parking brake (or have someone hold the brake pedal down).

Damn I could have thought of that too haha Thanks man!

[cdeal28078]

No compression on any cylinder? What type of gauge did you use for the test just out of curiosity? Did it screw into the spark plug hole? Did you crank the engine over to get at least 3 pulses?
clint

[Florian]

I posted a video of testing the compression on cylinder # 1 earlier in the thread. It´s a screw-in type of gauge, brand new out of the packaging. Cranked the engine for 10 seconds.

[Dragon]

No compression on any cylinder is the timing chain slipped.

[cdeal28078]

I posted a video of testing the compression on cylinder # 1 earlier in the thread. It´s a screw-in type of gauge, brand new out of the packaging. Cranked the engine for 10 seconds.

Didn't see it, thanks.
I thought it was bad rings on number one reason I was asking
clint

[cdeal28078]

71 302 probably still has the plastic coated gears. Bet all of that plastic is in the oil pan for sure.
Might be a good idea since the timing cover is coming off to pull the oil pan and at least clean the oil pump screen.
Now if it was me... I would pop the hood off and pull the engine out of the truck. It can be done in about 5 hours by somebody without a bad back meaning me.
I would go ahead and put it on a stand, take it apart enough to check the main and connecting rod bearings, change the oil pump and timing set and all gaskets and core plugs.
Good time to do it if you plan to keep the truck.
Just my
Makes it a lot easier to work on the engine

[Dragon]

If it still has the plastic at this late date I would be surprised!!! But it sure sounds like a plastic coated gear..

[Florian]

Got the rest of the stuff out of the way today!

Water pump removed:



Timing chain cover removed:



This little thing seems to have broken off...was already lying there when I removed the timing cover. It wasn´t broken off during the removal.







The picture got a little dark, but you can see that the chain had a lot of slack..

[Florian]

I need some help now regarding the replacement parts that I need.

What would you guys recommend me to change and what options do I have with these parts? Sure the chain and the two sprockets, are there any quality differences that I should know about? I guess I would order parts at Summit Racing...do they have the right parts for my needs?

What about gaskets, which type of gaskets would you recommend me? Are there sets available?