Idles good but dies when in gear...complete engine rebuild

[70_F100]

All in all, it doesn't look bad.

Definitely time for a ring job.

I doubt that the idle problem was caused by what you see. That could have contributed, but my guess is that the timing gear issue was the major problem.

The reason the pistons are so clean on top is because the oil rings are bad.

A good machine shop will be able to rework the heads and let you know whether or not you need new valves. Very hard to tell without pulling them out of the heads. Just be sure to have hardened seats installed.

You may get lucky and not have to have it bored, depending upon the cylinder wear. You may get by with just removing the ridge at the top of the cylinders and giving it a good hone job, if the wear is minimal. However, if you want this engine to last a long time and be like new, boring it and replacing the pistons will get you more miles out of the engine.

[Dragon]

Okay, you finally got me convinced Sorry for all the stupid questions, I still need to learn a lot and you helped me very much! Thanks!

Thanks!

Florian

No question is stupid.
The rings definitely. See how smooth the cylinder walls are When race engines do together they almost look like that. That is bad for new street rings to be that smooth. This is doable, when the carbon is removed at the top of the bore you will see how wore the cylinders are from the last time it was apart.

[Dragon]

When bored the ridge will be removed even a .005 over bore to clean up cylinders still removes the ridge. Don't get a ridge reamer the shop price includes it.

You usually can beat them out from the bottom with the ridge in place.

The csmhp kit is high compression avoid it for the street the MHP is the standard compression kit

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEM-MHP174-300/ this is a 30 over kit check the price.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEM-CSMHP729-200/ this is 20 over for a bit more.

[Florian]

Okay, so I´ll stick to the stock compression sets. What are the differences between hypereutectic aluminum pistons and forged aluminium pistons? Advantages/disadvantages?

Here are some pics of what I did today:


That´s how I kept my flywheel from moving in order to remove it:





In this photo you can see the damage to the camshaft bolt. From what I saw from underneath today, the camshaft itself is pretty beat up also.



Flywheel removed:



Freeze plugs removed. (Should have removed them already a while ago...would have saved me the mess I created on the garage floor )



Removed the oil pan and oil pump and flipped the block over..



Why is the bolt on this connection rod different than all the others??



Removed #1 piston, here you can see the wear of the bearings: How do they look?








Will remove the rest of the pistons and the crankshaft tomorrow

Florian

[Dragon]

Oh boy someone mickey moused your engine in the past. You need to get new rod bolts they are not real expensive as the engine is out of balance when bolts are mismatched. Look on Summit racing for ARP bolts for the 302. The bearings are shot on that rod. Copper never shows it is the first layer under the true bearing surface. Copper makes the bearings harder to deform.

Hyper pistons are real common in stock engines now. They have the same advantages of cast but are stronger. Forged is a lot stronger but needs more clearance so it makes for a noisier engine. Hypers are odd shaped so they become perfectly round when they heat up. Round cast pistons warp out of round when they get real hot.

That engine went a long ways with dirty oil in it.

Nice shop area, I am jealous.

That cam was a mess then and with the other things goofy in the engine the last guy who worked on it ought to go back to Disney Land.

[70_F100]

Why is the bolt on this connection rod different than all the others??

[ Image ]

Florian

Isn't that a main bearing cap bolt?

If so, the stud is there to mount an oil pickup tube.

Won't hurt a thing!!

Yes, the engine is worn out, but it doesn't look all that bad, other than the camshaft and just needing a good rebuild.

[Florian]

Isn't that a main bearing cap bolt?

If so, the stud is there to mount an oil pickup tube.

Won't hurt a thing!!

Ah damn! I´m stupid! I removed the oil pan and the oil pick up tube from underneath, with the motor hanging on the crane, that´s why I didn´t see the bolt during removal and then I looked too quick at it afterwards..

Thanks for the good advice, cdeal28078!


Removed the remaining pistons, the main bearings, the crankshaft, the lifters and the cam today. Unluckily I forgot to bring my camera, so there are no pics today. Will take some tomorrow.

On most of the connection rod bearings and also on the main bearings you can see the copper shining through. The cam is really beaten up! Also the cam bearings must be bad, you could move the cam forwards and backwards by the cam bolt. Didn´t remove the cam bearings so far, but they must be faulty..

Thanks!

Florian

[Dragon]

You can move the cam back and forth. The distributor held the cam in place so once it is out it moves a lot. Then you have a cam retainer that holds the cam in place on some engines.

[cdeal28078]

Don't worry about pulling the cam bearings. They'll come out at the shop or during the hot tanking one.
Yeah the cam will be pretty easy to move around without the distributor and cam gear on the front. Plus there is the cam shaft thrust plate. Don't misplace the oil slinger as it is easy to loose.
By the looks of the cam bolt I figure you will also need to replace the fuel pump eccentric. Looks like the tab that helps to hold it in place broke off so I am sure the way the bolt looks the hole in the eccentric must be wallowed out a good bit.
There is an older one piece one and a later 2 piece unit. Both do the same job but the 2 piece might be easier on the pump arm friction wise plus the 2 piece one needs a short pin.
clint

[Dragon]

He is on electric so the fuel pump eccentric is a mute point.

[Dragon]

If you have an electric fuel pump you do not need the eccentric ever unless you plan on converting back. You need a washer for the cam bolt.

[Florian]

I haven´t got a problem with the electric fuel pump, so I won´t spend money on a mechanical one

Here are the pics:

#4 piston:









The other pistons did not have damage like this..but I´m getting new pistons anyway. I guess something got in there, maybe something in the dirty oil and damaged it?


Main bearings:

#1: (front to rear)





#2:





#3:





#4:





#5:






The crankshaft:















How does the crankshaft look? Does it need machining also?


The camshaft:


















The lifters:








Then I removed the remaining gaskets from the block and the heads and cleaned everything. Will take it to the machine shop tomorrow.






All in all I guess it was good that I went that way and started rebuilding the engine Can´t wait to drive it with the "new" engine

Florian

[Dragon]

That crank needs turned and a decent under size is .010 so your engine kit needs .010 bearings and .010 pistons at least that cam will make a good table leg for the shop. When the bearings wore down to the copper the crank had nothing to cushion it.

[Florian]

Did your rod or main caps come off REALLY hard?

Just the contrary, I could slide out most of them by hand, some needed a little love tap with a soft hammer.

If you are going to have the machine shop install your pistons, they would already have the rods and could check them for you before they start to install the pistons.

Good idea

Is this the first engine you have ever rebuilt?
It can be a lot of fun, but don't rush anything. Take your time and double check everything. Better to take an extra week to reassemble, and never have a problem, then get it done in record time, only to have failure of something down the road.

Yes, it´s a first time experience for me. I really enjoy it! I´m learning a ton of stuff everyday!

Thanks!

Florian