Engine casting number questions

[vwfreak]

I have a question regarding engine block casting numbers and how they were used....

I have a '67 F250 with a block that has a 4.00" bore and a crank with a 3.5" stroke. 352, right? Right. I looked up the casting number in the table here on Fordification and I see that my block casting number, C6ME-A, was used for a multitude of engines from 330 CID to 428 CID applications. My question is this, and I will try to make sense....

Would all the different size engines have the same casting number in a given period even if they were of a different construction based upon the engine they were meant to be or
Was one casting made and it was intended to become just about any size engine....? I see what looks to be holes drilled for what could possibly be different style motor mounts so it makes sense that the block I have could have been mounted in different trucks or cars if that matters.

I am confused myself at this point but inside my head I know what I mean!!!

I have read that for a 352 the maximum over bore is 0.060". I have also been told to not overbore unless absolutely necessary especially here in AZ to keep metal mass around my pistons and help reduce overheating and block or cylinder wall warping. If my engine block could have become anything from a 330 to a 428cid motor do I need to worry about overboring my block 0.030"?

If I am not making sense I'll try again. Just let me know.....


JIM

[FreakysFords]

First off. Yup, could be most anything from the casting numbers so that's usually of little help with an FE.

3.5" crank is the same for 352 and 360.
4.002 is 352
4.052 is 360 (with a 3.5 crank, but easily a 390 by swapping the rotating assembly and WELL worth it.............. there's a million ways to go and for the most part, the FE cranks / rods are interchangeable. Then there's piston options.)
Is it a 4.00 or a 4.05 is your first real question. If it's a true 4.00x then it is in fact a 352 and you still have a ton of options.

For a starter on these engines (one of the greatest creations ever in my opinion), start with these two pages.

http://www.fordification.com/tech/casti ... Eblock.htm
http://www.fordification.com/tech/engineID-V8.htm

There's also a pretty good wiki on the Ford FE and even some forums devoted to it. Info is abundant and easily understood on these critters

[vwfreak]

First off. Yup, could be most anything from the casting numbers so that's usually of little help with an FE.

3.5" crank is the same for 352 and 360.
4.002 is 352
4.052 is 360 (with a 3.5 crank, but easily a 390 by swapping the rotating assembly and WELL worth it.............. there's a million ways to go and for the most part, the FE cranks / rods are interchangeable. Then there's piston options.)
Is it a 4.00 or a 4.05 is your first real question. If it's a true 4.00x then it is in fact a 352 and you still have a ton of options.

For a starter on these engines (one of the greatest creations ever in my opinion), start with these two pages.

http://www.fordification.com/tech/casti ... Eblock.htm
http://www.fordification.com/tech/engineID-V8.htm

There's also a pretty good wiki on the Ford FE and even some forums devoted to it. Info is abundant and easily understood on these critters

It is an original 352. My question came up because of the links you posted. I have looked at them before and agree they are good resources.

Were all C6ME-A castings created equal and then machined as needed for their intended application? In other words, can I overbore this block more because it may have just as well ended up a 428 in some police cruiser as it did in my old farmer's F250?

[mrollings53]

Yes and no. Ford would pick and choose between the castings and pull the really good blocks for use as 428's. You would have to have the cylinder walls sonic checked to see if they are thick enough to be bored out that much. It could be that the shift was so bad in your individual casting that they could only safely make a 352 out of it. Or, it could be bored out to a 390, and Ford just made a 352 out of it.

[hotrodfeguy]

Well for your C6ME-A block look at the date code when it was cast look for the angle part by your oil filter pad. The 428 bore molds didn't come out till 66 model year for one. Your in that window. But Given your truck is in the 352 window it prolly was a 352, the upside was by 67 you more than likely had the 390 bores cast into your little 352. Also you if you have your original heads on your engine have the C6AE-6090-R heads these are about the most sought after heads out there. why? Well they can be drilled and tapped for 16 bolt exhaust flanges much better for headers and exhaust leaks for one. Also they have the low riser/CJ style ports they are known as the poor mans CJ heads. drop a set of CJ valves in and they work great. Now back to your block. If it has the 390 bore molds it can be bored to a .060 over 390 spec. And if lucky with a sonic check maybe .080 over to a 428 bore 1x but then your done. Ford did this at the end of the 352 run cause they knew the end of the 352 was near and why bother with the 4" cores just add the 390 cores and be done with it. That way the engine blocks interchanged. Hope this makes sense and helps.

[vwfreak]

Well for your C6ME-A block look at the date code when it was cast look for the angle part by your oil filter pad. The 428 bore molds didn't come out till 66 model year for one. Your in that window. But Given your truck is in the 352 window it prolly was a 352, the upside was by 67 you more than likely had the 390 bores cast into your little 352. Also you if you have your original heads on your engine have the C6AE-6090-R heads these are about the most sought after heads out there. why? Well they can be drilled and tapped for 16 bolt exhaust flanges much better for headers and exhaust leaks for one. Also they have the low riser/CJ style ports they are known as the poor mans CJ heads. drop a set of CJ valves in and they work great. Now back to your block. If it has the 390 bore molds it can be bored to a .060 over 390 spec. And if lucky with a sonic check maybe .080 over to a 428 bore 1x but then your done. Ford did this at the end of the 352 run cause they knew the end of the 352 was near and why bother with the 4" cores just add the 390 cores and be done with it. That way the engine blocks interchanged. Hope this makes sense and helps.

It does make sense. LOADS of this information confuses me however. What I think I know about (or am told about) one thing is refuted by someone else and it's constant....

I met with a reputable speed shop yesterday and was told that casting numbers mean absolutely nothing and if my engine was born a 352 that's all it could ever be.
Agreed that a sonic check would be able to tell. Regardless I have a 360 block I am told is from '72. I was also told it was a 390 which is why I bought it (for the crank/rods) and it turns out the guy was a liar (He's a service mgr at a local Ford dealer so I guess being crooked goes with the territory).... Bottom line is I have a block that's 4.050 already and might be useable to overbore .030 so I don't have to use my original block. I do think it would be cool to keep the original block in the truck though, but maybe that's just me....

Heads are not the code you mention. They are C7AE-A heads.

[hotrodfeguy]

Well first off I would listen to a guy like this
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r264 ... 190002.jpg
Not a service man from a dealer who has prolly never even worked on a FE

Now to help ID your block you have to look at dates look at my pic why do you think I place date codes on them? Lok right on the edge thats a small 45* angle between the filter pad and the pan rail. shouls be a number the a letter then number for example if your truck has the original block in it should look like 7B28 Thats code for 67/Feb/28th day thats the casting date this helps ID the block. Now again lets assume your block is a 4.05 bore casting. It is a 360/390 block they are one in the same !!! All you do to swap from a 360 to a 390 is swap in crank rods and pistons.
If someone tells you U have a 72 block look at that date code, I have seen my share of 72 blocks with no casting code at all on the side of the block, again that makes me think you have a thick walled 352 thats really a 360 block. Because you have a C6ME-A casting C6 means a 66 mold/casting. I would really be willing to bet money on it if your cast code say your block was cast in 67. But you have to look. This goes back to Ronald Regan one of his old sayings was trust but verify. Do not take everyones word. Go out and look at YOUR truck. It will tell you it's truth in history. As a FE nut I am willing to bet its a late cast 352 with thick walls like a 360 and in every way it really is a 360 block, just was stuck with the 352 sticker on the air cleaner. Go look at your block in the truck tell me I am wrong.

[vwfreak]

Well first off I would listen to a guy like this
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r264 ... 190002.jpg
Not a service man from a dealer who has prolly never even worked on a FE

Now to help ID your block you have to look at dates look at my pic why do you think I place date codes on them? Lok right on the edge thats a small 45* angle between the filter pad and the pan rail. shouls be a number the a letter then number for example if your truck has the original block in it should look like 7B28 Thats code for 67/Feb/28th day thats the casting date this helps ID the block. Now again lets assume your block is a 4.05 bore casting. It is a 360/390 block they are one in the same !!! All you do to swap from a 360 to a 390 is swap in crank rods and pistons.
If someone tells you U have a 72 block look at that date code, I have seen my share of 72 blocks with no casting code at all on the side of the block, again that makes me think you have a thick walled 352 thats really a 360 block. Because you have a C6ME-A casting C6 means a 66 mold/casting. I would really be willing to bet money on it if your cast code say your block was cast in 67. But you have to look. This goes back to Ronald Regan one of his old sayings was trust but verify. Do not take everyones word. Go out and look at YOUR truck. It will tell you it's truth in history. As a FE nut I am willing to bet its a late cast 352 with thick walls like a 360 and in every way it really is a 360 block, just was stuck with the 352 sticker on the air cleaner. Go look at your block in the truck tell me I am wrong.

The block is out and disassembled actually as I intended to swap to a hotter cam and 4bbl carb. Once I got the intake off it was apparent the entire engine needed to be disassembled, cleaned and reassembled due to loads of coffee grounds looking sediment in the valley pan I'm told from deteriorated oil due to neglect. Also, the original cam gear was disintegrating and loads of nylon chips were in the oil pan. I can link to pictures but at the monent am still at work. I do know the bore is 4.00" as measured with an inside micrometer. Truck born on date was 3/4/67 and I believe the motor to be original and at a mileage of 67k.

It sounds as if the block outside is cast and cylinder sleeves are added (welded in...?) later when the desired motor size is chosen....? Apologise for my confusion. I'll get it figured out one day.

I DID find a crank today with a "3U" stamp on it, marked as turned -0.010" on all journals and am wondering how much a crank can be turned before it should be discarded... A light surface rust on it makes me believe it needs another 0.010 ground off but am not sure yet. I think it's a forged crank which, in the VW world back in the day was a far better crank than a cast one. True with V8s as well?

And the fellow that sold me the "390" knows exactly what he is doing. He completes about one hot rod build a year and has a veritable machine shop in his home garage. I think he just wanted it gone. If my new crank is useable and I can pick up some proper rods at a good price I won't sweat getting stuck with the 360 as it will be fine for a rebuild to a 390. I'll save my 352 and learn how to build it on my own at some point.
Thanks for the information!!

[hotrodfeguy]

Ok this is good stuff original 67 block born on 3/4 is going to be a 352/360/390 universal block, have no fear boring that block to 4.05" In fact shop around somtimes small machine shops around will get a customer that orders STD 390 pistons and never picks them up they sit on the shelf ALONG TIME !!!! They are easy to pick up a good deal on, and show up on E-bay also. You want 2V car type pistons. Now that 3U crank is a 390 crank, you can turn a FE crank to .040/,040 with no issues your fine there. They are cast but VERY strong they can spin to 7500 rpm in stock format! Now last you can pick up a set of stock rods cheap as hell here http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/ just introduce your self, Your truck what your doing, mention me maybe if you want . Then post a add in the classified section. I would not be surprised if someone close to you would hand you a free set of rods. I am sure you will make a friend or two in your area on that forum they are hard core FE freaks like me. I wish you were close to me. I would set you up. When u have time see what other heads u have see if any of them have 6090 on them between the plugs. If you do I will tell and show you why.


http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r264 ... 190002.jpg

[vwfreak]

This is good info. Thank you.

Where can I verify that a block is a "universal" block for 352-390 size bores as I was specifically told otherwise? Would I have to have the block sonic checked to verify?

Also, regarding the crank, the table on Fordification here lists the 3U as a forged crank. I guess it really doesn't matter to me as I won't be pushing over 7500rpm, but if the table is wrong I would wonder what else might be inaccurate as well....

The table is found here:

http://www.fordification.com/tech/casti ... Ecrank.htm

[vwfreak]

Now that 3U crank is a 390 crank, you can turn a FE crank to .040/,040 with no issues your fine there. They are cast but VERY strong....

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r264 ... 190002.jpg

I took a look at this crank today and I see what appear to be lines from what should have been a casting mold. I can't imagine it's forged....

[hotrodfeguy]

The 73-76 cast crank is iron, the 64-78 crank is steel the steel crank will ping like crazy if hit with a hammer and will also have like a 2" snout on the front of it, I am pretty sure someone didnt sell you one of those. If they did you got a super crank, that is worth $$$. I know I have 5 I wouldnt sell them for less than $400 EA