5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Clutch, transmission, rear axle

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Racer Z

5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Post by Racer Z »

Some of us have been chatting about overdrives and how to make it work with an automatic transmission in these two threads.
http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... =4&t=55140
http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... =4&t=55210

It seems to me that it is not financially practical.

What about the manual transmission? They're a bit more efficient and should be easier to adapt. My thinking tells me that a 5-speed, granny low with over drive should work well and be easy to find. But, which ones might work. Has anybody done this before? (most likely) And how did they do it. It would need to be robust enough to withstand the riggers of a fully loaded work truck towing a trailer up hills.

My application is an F250 with a 390 FE big block.
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Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Post by 71highboy »

they do have a thread on here for the manual transmission swaps i have read them but my age and my mind have left me blank on where i read it.
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Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Post by eggman918 »

I went through this same thought process abaut a year and a half ago,but my 390 had a problem that cost just enough to make me retire it.
I think the easiest way with an FE would be a NV4500 :2cents:
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Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Post by Racer Z »

71highboy wrote:they do have a thread on here for the manual transmission swaps i have read them but my age and my mind have left me blank on where i read it.
Didn't show up in my searches. How about a link?
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Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Post by 1971ford »

You can do a ZF5 behind the FE.
high impact makes the adapter piece.

Of course, get ready to spend moneyz!
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Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Post by Racer Z »

I'm not interested in a 3-speed. I don't expect to be able to use OD while loaded or pulling a trailer, and certainly not while going up the Grapevine with a load.

The gear that is 1:1 is always the strongest because it's a straight through gear. The input shaft and the output shaft are locked together and the counter shaft is not being used.
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Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Post by averagef250 »

There are plenty of options out there besides using a car tranny. Car tranny isn't a great idea BTW. The bigger issue here doesn't seam to be finding the tranny, it seams to be paying for it.

Why hasn't every bump been upgraded with new drivetrain? Because it isn't a justifiable expense. There's no $10 overdrive out there.
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Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Post by fireguywtc »

averagef250 wrote:There are plenty of options out there besides using a car tranny. Car tranny isn't a great idea BTW. The bigger issue here doesn't seam to be finding the tranny, it seams to be paying for it.

Why hasn't every bump been upgraded with new drivetrain? Because it isn't a justifiable expense. There's no $10 overdrive out there.
:yt: I am looking to get a ZF-5 for my 460 build for the 67. I want a five speed and have accepted that is is going to cost me around 1k for a good rebuilt one, including clutch and such. I haven't looked into it too much yet though. The rebuild kit for an NP435 is about $250.
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Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Post by Racer Z »

This thread is about matching a 5-speed to an FE block. Clearly it would easier to change the engine and trans as a set from a newer truck.

I would not even consider using a car trans in a big truck for several reasons. The main reason is that it won't handle to torque and will wear out quickly.
Trucks usually have wide ratio transmission, cars have a medium ratio gear spread and race cars (road racing) prefer a close ratio transmission. As a sports truck, the medium ratio might be ok, but as a real work truck with heavy loads, the wide ratios work better. This has more to do with the power band of the engine.
Trucks tend to have low speed engines with a broad power band.
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Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Post by averagef250 »

Racer Z wrote:This thread is about matching a 5-speed to an FE block. Clearly it would easier to change the engine and trans as a set from a newer truck.

I would not even consider using a car trans in a big truck for several reasons. The main reason is that it won't handle to torque and will wear out quickly.
Trucks usually have wide ratio transmission, cars have a medium ratio gear spread and race cars (road racing) prefer a close ratio transmission. As a sports truck, the medium ratio might be ok, but as a real work truck with heavy loads, the wide ratios work better. This has more to do with the power band of the engine.
Trucks tend to have low speed engines with a broad power band.

You have an understanding that transmissions have differing ratio sets for differing applications, but your idea of what's suited to what application is somewhat inaccurate.
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Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Post by Racer Z »

averagef250 wrote:
Racer Z wrote:Trucks usually have wide ratio transmission, cars have a medium ratio gear spread and race cars (road racing) prefer a close ratio transmission. As a sports truck, the medium ratio might be ok, but as a real work truck with heavy loads, the wide ratios work better. This has more to do with the power band of the engine.
Trucks tend to have low speed engines with a broad power band.

You have an understanding that transmissions have differing ratio sets for differing applications, but your idea of what's suited to what application is somewhat inaccurate.
Then explain your concept to us.
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Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Post by survivorman »

Your basically on your own unless you want to do one of the few swaps available for FE's.

The T5 is a easy enough swap if you have a top-loader, and of course there are major trans companys building high performance ones for top loader applications. TKO, Keisler, and Richmond all produce heavy duty trans for performance use.

Also your factory stick is probilt not much better then best top-loader or in case of Chevy M-22.

Theres always switching clutches for the proper spline count, drilling your bell housing for the proper pattern, and possable the shaft being the right length. If it is too long you can use a spacer. If it is too short I have no idea.
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Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Post by akuma10408 »

averagef250 wrote:You have an understanding that transmissions have differing ratio sets for differing applications, but your idea of what's suited to what application is somewhat inaccurate.
I have to smile when I read this because it's both honest and true.

Making the statement that cars prefer Y, truckes prefer Y and race cars prefer Z assumes a lot, which I'm sure you realize. It would be more accurate to say that the transmission (gear ratios included) in a given vehicle should be appropriately matched to the vehicle's weight and engine, broadly speaking. A fairly light vehicle with a broad powerband would be well-suited to a transmission with tall, widely spaced gearing. Something like a Ford F-1 with a flathead 6. This is in line with what you've said.

Conversely, over the road tractors have very close ratio transmissions, much closer than anything I can think of. Their powerband is broad throughout their RPM range but since they must move such heavy loads, close, short ratios are required to give adequate mechanical advantage. As you might expect, they also have many more gears. Additionally, they have a low redline. Contrary to what you said, the heaviest trucks actually tend to have close gearing.

Both are trucks, but have very different gearing. It has everything to do with torque curve and weight, and also redline.
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Re: 5-Speed Manual Transmission to the FE block, Discussion

Post by FreakysFords »

Just a side note. The torque of the FE in ANY variant will kill many transmissions. The T5 would not be an option for me. Then I've killed W/C T5s with a Volvo 2.3 4cyl.

My own personal route is to get my hands on a top loader and some mid 2s rear gears. I'm running 3.5s now with a 3sp and am getting good mileage (was, still sitting needing a radiator, steering column shaft, flex joint and potentially a water pump since the accident).

Lastly, averagef250 speaks wisdom.
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