429/460

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Jgriggs
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429/460

Post by Jgriggs »

I guess it's time to ask the pros.
I received a 69 F250 Ranger as payment for a broke down Dodge, and running Geo. Yep, I think I came out ahead too. Anyway, I thought it had a 390 in it because that's what the badges say on it, but it is clearly and obviously a 385 block. That of course makes it either a 429 or 460. I know there isn't any real good and easy way to tell them apart externally, so that's not so much the question unless theres some secret little nugget of knowledge I don't know. probably is. Anyway, the engine needs to come out to stop the rear and front main seals from leaking. I tried with it in, just can't remove the oil pan. So since it's coming out anyway, and the oil pressure is only 10 psi warm at idle and 25 psi cruising, 65 cold. I figured I'd basically just rebuild the bottom end. I would like to have the parts in hand before turning bolt 1, at least as near as I can, so what parts are interchangeable between the 429 and 460? timing set?oil pump? bearings? or are the journals a different size between the two crankshafts? I wouldn't think so, but with my luck. . . For that matter, is there difference between these kinds of parts with the model years of the engine? I know there were differences between early and later engines, is there a way to tell which I have. I know nothing of the swap, only that it is a 385 family. D0VE heads, one valve cover says 429 CID the other says 460 CID. no help there. Anyway any help I can get can only save me time, money, and frustration.
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BobbyFord
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Re: 429/460

Post by BobbyFord »

Crank and pistons are what is different between 429 and 460. Everything else is interchangeable. Stick a wood dowel down a spark plug hole and rotate the engine to determine the stroke. 429 stroke is 3.59, 460 is 3.85. Block casting number is behind the starter. D0VE heads are good.
Jgriggs
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Re: 429/460

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I looked at the casting number behind the starter, I dont recall what it was right off hand. Only that it confirmed that it was indeed a 429/460. but if crank and pistons are the only difference, then I wont worry too much about it right now, I'll just collect parts. I wasn't really planning on doing anything with crank or pistons unless I open it up and find a can of worms. I don't expect that because it really does run pretty good except for a stumble and miss and backfire at partial throttle. new cap rotor and wires will hopefully smooth it out. but if it turns into a full blown rebuild, well so be it.
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Re: 429/460

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:thup:
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Manny
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Re: 429/460

Post by Manny »

Dove heads a really good sounds like a good starter! I'm building a 68' 429 thunderjet with dove heads. They love premium fuel but they are good!
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Re: 429/460

Post by rollercam1 »

If they are D0VE A or D0VE C heads, more than likely 68-72 429 4V. They are similar to the cobra jet and police interceptor heads. Not the super cobra jet head. They will easily accept screw in studs and can make decent power with some porting. Look up reincarnation auto for porting stock heads. If they require hardened seat, guides, seals. It will more than likely be close in price to a set of ford racing aluminum cobra jet heads. The same thing as the rotating assembly. You can get into a Scat stroker for around 1600.00 and it will come with forged pistons, good rods, bearings etc. The last 385 I built was a 521 and I was into it for around 4500 and it made 626hp/710ftlbs. Good luck!
Jgriggs
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Re: 429/460

Post by Jgriggs »

626/710 gonna break stuff lol.
I definitely don't want to do ant job twice, but as it is right now I really just need to stop the oil leaks. as far as building a performance engine goes, I know this thing has some potential, but the truck also has cab mounts etc that need to be addressed, wiring is a nightmare I mean I took an aftermarket voltage gauge out and everything in the truck went dark. meanwhile I need to drive it and don't have a place to tear it completely down and let it sit for any length of time. Everything I tackle has to be a weekend job. I guess I'm a weak individual, I got the truck as payment like I said for a non running Ram 1500, and a running Geo Metro that I bought for 174.00. So my thought was I'd take this old beat up Ford, flip it for a grand and be happy. Then I fell in love. Now I want to bring it back from the brink and run it. 600 HP would be sweet, 700 tq would keep you firmly pressed back in the seat. But thats not for this winter. This winter is just to keep it running. Leaks, fresh bearings, and maybe rewire. As far as it goes, is 10 PSI at idle 25 at 2000 RPM when warm anything to worry about? it seems low, but there is no tapping or unusual noises. Anyway, I get sidetracked pretty easy.
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Re: 429/460

Post by RyansFord »

If you order parts before you turn bolt #1, you're leaving yourself vulnerable to regret. Exactly what do you mean by, "rebuild the bottom end"? If you're gonna do that, you may as well rebuild the whole thing. I recently replaced an oil pan gasket in my 69' F250 with a 428. It didn't require "pulling the whole motor". It required lifting it about 4 inches so the pan would clear the crank/oilpump/sump. Wouldn't ya know, about a week later I blow a head gasket. Guess who just pulled the big block FE from his 69' F250. This guy... It required far more than lifting the engine a few inches. The hood and front end had to come all the way out.

The point is, you can't always predict what parts you'll need before you get dirty. You aren't even sure what engine you have yet. Until you pull the pan and see a stamp on a counterweight or pull a head to measure a bore-accurately, you can't be sure exactly what parts you need.
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Re: 429/460

Post by Twisted_Steel »

The 429 in my 69 SB came out of a 71 Merc Marquis. The original booklet was still in the glove box when I got the car in 1995. It told about the "All New" AM-FM stereo radio for 1971. The neat thing was... It gave factory horsepower/torque and octane numbers for that particular engine.
The engine came with 360hp and 485 lbs/ft of torque and the booklet said to run a minimum octane of 99
Nowadays those are diesel power numbers and racing gas octane level.
I ran 87 octane and it never had any spark knock. It ran good enough to embarrass a few young bucks with S-10's and Rangers who thought they "had something" for the old farm truck.
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Re: 429/460

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Twisted_Steel wrote:The 429 in my 69 SB came out of a 71 Merc Marquis. The original booklet was still in the glove box when I got the car in 1995. It told about the "All New" AM-FM stereo radio for 1971. The neat thing was... It gave factory horsepower/torque and octane numbers for that particular engine.
The engine came with 360hp and 485 lbs/ft of torque and the booklet said to run a minimum octane of 99
Nowadays those are diesel power numbers and racing gas octane level.
I ran 87 octane and it never had any spark knock. It ran good enough to embarrass a few young bucks with S-10's and Rangers who thought they "had something" for the old farm truck.
Mine still has the owners manual as well as some of the paperwork from when it was purchased new. also a picture that was taken of it in its glory days.
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Re: 429/460

Post by Jgriggs »

RyansFord wrote:If you order parts before you turn bolt #1, you're leaving yourself vulnerable to regret. Exactly what do you mean by, "rebuild the bottom end"? If you're gonna do that, you may as well rebuild the whole thing. I recently replaced an oil pan gasket in my 69' F250 with a 428. It didn't require "pulling the whole motor". It required lifting it about 4 inches so the pan would clear the crank/oilpump/sump. Wouldn't ya know, about a week later I blow a head gasket. Guess who just pulled the big block FE from his 69' F250. This guy... It required far more than lifting the engine a few inches. The hood and front end had to come all the way out.

The point is, you can't always predict what parts you'll need before you get dirty. You aren't even sure what engine you have yet. Until you pull the pan and see a stamp on a counterweight or pull a head to measure a bore-accurately, you can't be sure exactly what parts you need.

A stamp oin the counterweight?
Thats the kind of nugget I'm looking for. I know that I can't know everything that I will need until I get in there, but some things I do know I need. Obvious things, like an oil pan gasket. like the front and main seals. timing chain. are these things different between the 429 and 460? how about an oil pump? Is there a difference between the two engines as far as main and rod bearings? I need to move the truck 350 miles to work on it. Thats not the best situation, but it is what I have to work with. I don't want to get into it before buying at least some of the parts. I know the bearings I will have to wait on, need to measure for them.
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Re: 429/460

Post by BobbyFord »

Jgriggs wrote:
RyansFord wrote:If you order parts before you turn bolt #1, you're leaving yourself vulnerable to regret. Exactly what do you mean by, "rebuild the bottom end"? If you're gonna do that, you may as well rebuild the whole thing. I recently replaced an oil pan gasket in my 69' F250 with a 428. It didn't require "pulling the whole motor". It required lifting it about 4 inches so the pan would clear the crank/oilpump/sump. Wouldn't ya know, about a week later I blow a head gasket. Guess who just pulled the big block FE from his 69' F250. This guy... It required far more than lifting the engine a few inches. The hood and front end had to come all the way out.

The point is, you can't always predict what parts you'll need before you get dirty. You aren't even sure what engine you have yet. Until you pull the pan and see a stamp on a counterweight or pull a head to measure a bore-accurately, you can't be sure exactly what parts you need.

A stamp oin the counterweight?
Thats the kind of nugget I'm looking for. I know that I can't know everything that I will need until I get in there, but some things I do know I need. Obvious things, like an oil pan gasket. like the front and main seals. timing chain. are these things different between the 429 and 460? how about an oil pump? Is there a difference between the two engines as far as main and rod bearings? I need to move the truck 350 miles to work on it. Thats not the best situation, but it is what I have to work with. I don't want to get into it before buying at least some of the parts. I know the bearings I will have to wait on, need to measure for them.
Everything is the same except the crank and the pistons.
If you’re going to replace the timing set make sure you get 68-71 set. The later set retards the cam.
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Re: 429/460

Post by Twisted_Steel »

Jgriggs wrote:
Twisted_Steel wrote:The 429 in my 69 SB came out of a 71 Merc Marquis. The original booklet was still in the glove box when I got the car in 1995. It told about the "All New" AM-FM stereo radio for 1971. The neat thing was... It gave factory horsepower/torque and octane numbers for that particular engine.
The engine came with 360hp and 485 lbs/ft of torque and the booklet said to run a minimum octane of 99
Nowadays those are diesel power numbers and racing gas octane level.
I ran 87 octane and it never had any spark knock. It ran good enough to embarrass a few young bucks with S-10's and Rangers who thought they "had something" for the old farm truck.
Mine still has the owners manual as well as some of the paperwork from when it was purchased new. also a picture that was taken of it in its glory days.

Did it give the torque and horsepower numbers for your engine as well? If so, do you remember what they were?
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Re: 429/460

Post by rollercam1 »

The marquis 429's were almost always a 4V version and they were rated at 365hp/485tq. They were used in 68-72 and had D0VE-a or D0VE-c heads. Those ported correctly can yield over 800hp. Scott at reincarnation auto sells a complete "how to" to port the heads and modification. He has had multiple engine masters engines that have competed very well. I started with a 70' marquis when I built my brother's 67' bump. Stout engine to start with
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Re: 429/460

Post by cep62 »

rollercam1 wrote: Stout engine to start with
:yt:
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